Those are great, I admit -- although I've been looking for the Song of Sunset series, and I've been unable to find it. Could you point me to it?

Hiya,
I just discovered that you mentioned my fic Elegy for Numenor, which was very kind of you. I actually have a lot of LOTR stories on this archive, including a number of twincest stories featuring Elladan and Elrohir. Like you, I was intrigued by Tyellas' twins way back when I started writing fanfic 9 years ago and found the problem of their transgressive relationship compelling. You also mention a number of my favorite fanfic writers. And I just started reading Another Man's Cage, which is indeed marvelous. The Erestor/Glorfindel pairing became popular after Helmboy (aka AC who you mention)wrote a story called Gavotte with Erestor as the uptight,fusty librarian type, which has been widely imitated since and folks have branched out to characterize him in a rainbow of incarnations. I think it's because he's such a canon unknown that people can put any kind of character on him.

I think it's great that you are reccing other authors and discussing trends in the fandom, and I appreciate the mention. Cheers!

Popping in again here on the LOTRFF site to compliment you on this engaging essay. Your keen ability to hone in on key examples of themes of Tolkienian fan fiction is so impressive! Great examples for these five themes, too! I've read a fair sampling of them and was nodding vigorously in agreement with you as I read along.

In your essay Fanfiction, a long road to the Grail, you noted that you were nervous about posting. Don't be. Your insight into the milieu of Tolkienian fan fic is great, and your writing style is engaging, intelligent and infused with humor. You give me a good reason to haul my lazy self out of my web on the SWG and check out the LotRFF site more often. So be bold and keep 'em coming!

1) Erestor.

When I saw how popular Erestor was I wondered why; as he made no impression on me in the books (which have far more impact than the films for me.) If I had read of him in the Silmarillion, I might have been able to mentally imbue him with the tragic glamor of, for instance, Glorfindel, but when it comes to *bit parts* I much prefer Gildor Inglorion, who is rarely written of and even has a fascinating name.

2) Incest.

I am almost embarrassed to think how young I was when I ran the Fëanor/Fingolfin theme through my mind; but it was Tolkien who lit the fuse. Finwë's immense love for Fëanor, Fëanor's intense love for his father, his passion, his charisma which was so strong that his sons took this Oath without hesitation, Fingolfin's loyalty toward him, even when Fëanor had drawn steel on him, and the fact that he too followed his half-brother. The Finwion's seemed to literally bleed a sinful passion, one that saw few boundaries, and in my AU Fëanor is Fëanor before he is anything, father, brother etc. The fact that Fingolfin and Maglor do feel guilt only adds to the thrill for him. Along with the terrible sorrow of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad and the tragedy of Túrin, it was the tangible passion of the House of Finwë that burned itself into my impressionable young mind when I read the Silmarillion. And I absolutely do believe in what I write, even after 20 plus years of canon. I wouldn't write it if I did not feel more strongly about it than *written canon*.

Vanimórë and Sauron is much more to do with control and degradation, of course. There is a genuine love between Fëanor and Fingolfin in my AU, under the lust, between Van and Sauron, I think there is respect, but no familial affection.

I have still read very little incest (I don't consider Maedhros and Fingon incest because in the UK first cousins can lawfully marry)

I have read one Elured/Elurin and one Elladan/Elrohir on this archive and only within the last 5-6 months. Orolime is writing an Arwen/Elladan/Elrohir at the moment. Then there is Ignoble Bard's King's Ransom which is Fingolfin/Maedhros. I've never read another Fëanor/Fingolfin, but then I never search for pairings, I just read a summary and if I am interested, I read.

Incest is my favorite theme to write of, because it throws up all these emotions of taboo desire, guilt, shame and secrecy. I find complicated/forbidden relationships far more interesting to write and read than ones that contain no conflict - conflict hooks me every time. In fact I am more into 'lust stories' than 'love stories.' with the exception of Esteliel's series, since her Legolas completely deserves love! :)

3) Gorgeous language.
Kenaz uses superbly crafted and gorgeous language which wholly and completely fits the Elves; their dialogue and speech patterns also show it, which is incredibly rare; her writing completely immerses the reader into an Elvish world. And
Pink Siamese
is just an astonishing writer of both description and dialogue. Reading both of those authors is like having a free lesson in the use of language. They write better than most published authors; there is nothing amateur about them. I have found myself more critical of once-loved published books since reading fanfiction, because now many of them seem shallow and poorly written. I always look for a mature author's voice in a story and elegance in the writing.

4) Sauron the evil seducer or rapist.

Lol, yes, evil people have a head-start. We expect them to behave badly, so we do not have to explain why they do, though some authors do tackle that difficult subject incredibly well.
I would still like to read Morgoth/Sauron.

5) Political plots.
It was a summary on
Esteliel
Anestel which drew me into her work. I am still wholly hooked. (And her MPREG is the most believable ever written) I had spent years on role-play sites where Imladris, Lothlórien and Mirkwood were all portrayed as the cuddle-buddies; to see a story where Imladris and Mirkwood hated one another was a fascinating concept. It also gave the Elves back a little of that rather pagan savagery of the Silmarillion which I loved!

Apart from the twincest themes, I had no idea that any of the other incest/kincest pairings were popular at all. A reborn Elros? Wow, that is something I would not have come up with! O_O

I feel like I have read very little fanfic, as I have only read a couple of the authors you mention; I will have to make a note and search them out.
Thank-you, Undomiel!
Take care

Siân

Author's Response: 1)Some authors just give life to characters. Erfan Starled (Glorfindel's Stray), Jdav (The Song of Sunset) and Darth Fingon(To Sing Of) have all proved how powerful Erestor can be when written by a talented person. I don't recommend every story that has Erestor. But some of them are really, really good. 2) Maybe you can read Tyellas. Her lust stories are wonderful. She had some essays also that talked about sexuality in Tolkien. I like some reason to be there behind the lust. Erfan Starled is good at giving those reasons in a powerful manner. Ditto for Jdav and Ford of Bruinen. Feanor/Fingolfin is a very common pairing on the old archives. It was a rage before the movies came out. After the movies, Aragorn slash and Legolas slash became the 'in' things. 3)Pink Siamese is a wonderful writer. I like the sex scenes she comes up with. I have read Kenaz's works on SWG or some other site(OEAM). She writes well. I like authors who can build grand plots and complete them. All the writers I recommended have proven that they have it in them to complete the story. When you have been around for a long time you don't have patience to read stalled works when you can easily find very good stories by talented writers on some other archive. Tyellas was very good in completing stories. Erfan Starled archives only completed stories. Ford of Bruinen had this great phase when she wrote so fast and so nicely. Jdav does not make people wait for updates. You are pretty fast yourself. 4)Dark Judgment had Morgoth/Sauron! I like Pandemonium's Sauron. It's not like anything else I have come across in a long time. Tyellas's Sauron was an opportunist. That worked very cool too. 5)I have read Anestel or some part of it when it came on Library of Moria a long time ago. But the genre is really not my type. Lothlorien, Imladris and Mirkwood as cuddle-buddies. I haven't read many fics like that. Most of the stories I have read in the last two decades are about rivalries between Mirkwood and Imladris. It is one of those common plots and doesn't really get my interest anymore. It's just like how every 3rd story has a Celebrian rape scene and twins killing orcs. Thranduil as evil father affected by Oropher's actions in the last alliance and not having relations with the Noldor is one of the most recurring themes. Thranduil giving Legolas hell was one of Library of Moria's most exploited plot themes. That is why Sunset caught my fancy from the very beginning. The author's take on Oropher and Thranduil is fresh and unique. Incest is a very popular theme. Elrond/Elros, Feanor/Fingolfin, Boromir/Faramir, Eomer/Eowyn/Aragorn(after the movies were out this was a craze) etc are common. Thank you!